DeFi-lization of Non Fungible Tokens, Whale Shark of $WHALE


DeFi-lization of Non Fungible Tokens, Whale Shark of $WHALE

October 2020

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Whale Shark is the pseudo-anonymous founder of the $WHALE NFT collector community, with the largest social currency by market cap in the world, built in just 12 months, and backed by the world’s largest collection of non-fungible tokens.

We talk about the difference between NFTs, from gaming collectibles to digital fine art, how they can be used to collateralize an asset backed crypto currency, and the power of principle based communities in Web 3.

Posted by - October 2020

October 2020

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Jamie Burke 0:13
You’re an early stage web three founder apply to our award winning accelerator programme base camp at Outlier ventures.io slash base camp, we write your first $50,000 check and give you access to 200 mentors, including many of the leading web three founders, and a network of 1000 of the world’s leading investors and exchanges. We’ve helped over 30 startups from 15 countries from all around the world, raise 100 and $30 million in growth funding, it can help you fast track product market fit, and where relevant the launch of your token economy. Today, I’m really excited to welcome whale shark that’s obviously a pseudonym. No parent would name the child that he is the founder of the whale community. And I kind of stumbled across him and the whale community project relatively recently. So I’m unusually underprepared for this podcast. And that’s kind of compounded by the fact that it’s quite difficult to find out much about well sharp, but nevertheless, we’re gonna see where we get to. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me on. Jamie, a huge fan of the podcasts have been following

WhaleShark 1:25
actually your podcasts for quite a bit. Thank you very much for having me on today.

Jamie Burke 1:29
I did. I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. That’s really good to hear. So let me try to describe you and the project. And of course, you know, feel free to correct or build. So well, shark is, as I said, a pseudonym. That’s 12 months old, part, meme, part person, perhaps increasingly part person, part social entrepreneur, you actually describe yourself as part whale part shark. And I’d love to understand that a little bit more. But importantly, as a social entrepreneur and investor with a focus on disrupting the status quo, whilst elevating the brave and dedicated communities behind innovation, collateral of all things beautiful and scarce use case maximalist, is there anything that you would add to that descriptor?

WhaleShark 2:18
Thank you so much, me, you got a spot on. So basically, I am a social entrepreneur, I very much enjoy investing in helping projects, in this case, particularly in the NFT space, you know, really positively grow their projects to sum to success. Going back to your question, just now on on why part whale part shark? You know, again, I believe that every single person has a dichotomy. You know, you have good, you have bad, you have good, you have evil. And then you have the whale and you have the shark, in terms of my understanding of, of the whale into shark. I think we all know that whales, by nature are very, very peaceful, very large beings that walk softly, but carry a big stick, and that you have the shark that knows what the good deal and know and smells blood, and knows when to hunt a good deal. So I believe that all investors are a dichotomy of the whale and of the shark. And I actually picked the pseudonym when I enter the NFT space in order to represent that dichotomy.

Jamie Burke 3:29
Interesting. So there’s several reasons why I’ve got you on the show, and why as I said, it’s quite rushed. So I’m not new to crypto been in it for several years. But I’ve only just begun revisiting NF T’s really in the last six weeks or so, since I actually took a vacation. And so my way of switching off was to understand a part of the crypto ecosystem that I didn’t know before, which says a lot about me. But So on one hand, it seems like what you’re doing, personally, and the movement that’s kind of growing around you is both at the very edge of crypto, but and NF T’s, but increasingly at its centre. And to be honest with you, I haven’t fully figured out what you’re up to. I tried my best to do some desk research today. So I’m more than definitely going to get some stuff wrong, but you seem like a very generous person. So I’m sure you’ll give me some latitude there.

WhaleShark 4:32
Absolutely. So Jimmy, I mean, I’ve been in the crypto space for a very long time as well, since 2012, actually.

Unknown Speaker 4:39
So 2012

WhaleShark 4:40
was actually when I purchased my very first Bitcoin fell in love with the entire concept behind decentralised money and the financial aspects of what cryptocurrency could bring to the to the world. So you know, just talking a little bit about my background so I can explain to you where I am today and what we’re doing was in Bitcoin from 2012 all the way to 2015 totally and utterly fell in love with aetherium it towards 2015 when I saw that, you know, cryptocurrencies could not only be a method of value transfer, but could also do so much more with smart contract technology, sold off all my Bitcoin in 2015, bought straight into aetherium. And, and entered and bought actually my first NFT 13 months ago, 13 months ago to the date when I entered the space, you know, I had heard about crypto kiddies, I had heard about crypto punks. But you know, nothing had really clicked with me at that point in time, because I was looking to draw a successful parallel between what’s happening in the traditional world and what it could be improved upon with blockchain technology. So the very first project that I fell in love with was a godson chained, which is actually a tradable cards game. And I could immediately draw a parallel with that to collectible cards in terms of Magic the Gathering, where you now have cards that are selling for 100,000 200,000 $250,000.

What I’m doing today in terms of well,

I could not imagine that my collecting behaviour back then in terms of collecting these gaming cards, and then eventually transitioning to digital art, digital land, and other digital collectibles would end up with well, so while I would love to say that I had planned this all along, it was really just, you know, after amassing this huge collection of NF T’s really going back and connecting the dots and saying, Hey, is it possible for me to share this collection with others. So where we are today is basically, whale is the largest social currency in the blockchain space today, its value is being underpinned by all of the NF T’s that I was collecting from last year, all the way, actually all the way till today. So I do continue to collect NF T’s using my personal funds and donating it direct to the project. In addition to that, it also, we’ve also managed to grow one of the most robust NFT communities. So we have about 2000 members in Discord. And, you know, once again, in addition to the whale token being backed by all of these NF T’s, as well as this very large community, we’ve also implemented aspects of defy such as liquidity mining, invented some new mechanisms such as NFT, mining. He invented some mechanisms taken out from games, what we call hold to play. And basically what we’ve done is we’ve created this very stable, but growing social currency that just continues to grow in the double and triple digits every single month.

Jamie Burke 8:01
Yeah, I mean, it’s really fascinating. And maybe just to kind of quantify that the last stat I saw in terms of whale being the most valuable social currency was the highest non diluted market market cap at over 5 million US dollar equivalent. Is that the right number? It’s probably grown since since then.

WhaleShark 8:21
It’s grown quite a bit since then JV Oh, wow. Today is it today, our, our non diluted market capital is $35 million. Our fully diluted market capital and Jimmy, it’s grown over the last, honestly, it’s grown over the last couple of weeks. All of this growth, I believe, has been in tandem with not only whales striking a chord with the NFT community itself. But I have to be very honest and say that the interest in the NFT sector has just skyrocketed over the last month, in the last few weeks. So today, basically we’re standing pretty much at a $35 million non diluted market cap. We have 10 million tokens. So we’re about 87 million fully diluted today.

Jamie Burke 9:13
Yeah, and it’s funny we again, this kind of this is why I wanted to get you on the show because there is something that has been happening across the space and empty space literally in a matter of weeks. You know, so the price of rari going up the the token that backs rebels or I’m not sure that liquidity behind it. So obviously, you know price movements are easy to be quite extreme when there’s low, low liquidity, but nevertheless, you look at the charts and something interesting is happening, but also what you’re doing and I think you refer to the DeFi ization of whale with things like liquidity mining. The thesis that’s forming in my mind as we speak is really How NF T’s and DLT interplay, why how NF T’s can benefit from all of this infrastructure that’s been built on the kind of money Lego of DLT. And vice versa, how DLT can benefit from some of the characteristics that you can programme into NF T’s, perhaps to bring about better behaviour rather than kind of just promiscuous yield hunting. So hopefully, we’re going to get to unpack some of that a little a little bit later. So as you said, You’ve been investing in the space for for 1213 months, you released a white paper in recently writes a sixth of June 2020. That was when the white paper white paper version two was released. And that kind of lays out the lays out the vision and the activities. And as I understand it, a big part of what you believe you’re doing with a community is is not just accumulating assets, but educating crypto communities on NF T’s and NF t communities on things like DeFi. But could you explain a little bit about about that process over the last 12 months? Gotcha.

WhaleShark 11:13
So again, going back to my original story, I when I was collecting gods and chain cards when I was collecting, crypto art and, and digital land, you know, I never thought that I never had an had had the thought that we would actually piece this all together. And then after that use it to underpin the social token. It was just do over the course of the collecting of these NF T’s. I, we saw an opportunity to say, hey, these things are actually worth quite a bit of money, right? They’re also they also continue to grow in value, even though the NFT space had not really taken off yet. My main purpose of taking these NF T’s and underpinning it under a social token was saying, hey, how can I benefit the entire space? or How can I get more people involved with NF T’s. And this seemed to be the seemed to be the most effective way to go about it. We drafted up the first white paper version in, I wouldn’t say April, April of this year. So April of this year, we launched the first version. And we really had a lot of community input, which is why the second version came out in June. Basically, what we’re trying to do here is, you know, by forming this by forming this community, that is right now comprised of many creators from different aspects when it’s NF Ts, I mean, we have, we have people who are artists, we have people who are creating games, we have people who are creating collectibles, we have people who build on digital lands. By doing this, basically, what we can do is we can create synergies between different projects, and at the same time form a real centre of knowledge around NF T’s over the last over the last one month, I can see that the community has diversified by quite a bit. We have a lot of Oji, you know, Oji crypto holders, you know, people who have been who have been collecting Bitcoin since 2010 22,009. We have a lot of people coming in off of the DeFi races, right? Everyone is trying to farm that yield. And so basically, what you see is you see a very positive interaction between the NFT community, as well as the DeFi, the DeFi side of the blockchain, as well as the original crypto holders. You know, you mentioned it earlier on today. But

Unknown Speaker 13:42
NF T’s really

WhaleShark 13:44
sit at the edge of what’s coming next for blockchain. And I think by doing this, we can actually ensure that there’s a more positive growth in the system, as well as faster adoption of NF T’s by having the centre of knowledge.

Jamie Burke 14:00
Yeah, and potentially, you know, see, this kind of thesis that’s forming in my mind that actually NF T’s could be the way that you mainstream defy, you know, as an asset as a form of collateral. So if we go back to the white paper, there was again, I kind of read it very quickly. But what I could see, there seemed to be like three constituent parts to the mission, the vision, and we’ll kind of break down I guess, the constituent parts functionally or operationally of whale but from a mission perspective, it kind of starts with this. Maybe protest is too strong a word but a protest against a common comment on both the global financial system but also crypto. So you know, the idea that crypto was supposed to be this antidote or or kind of balancing factor to the global financial system, but that it is Today still has structural problems largely around, you know, volatility. And the idea that whale traders are kind of dominating the system and making it unusable. The second one was the whale is this kind of response to that as a social currency? And that is, is, is looking to be kind of returned to a true tangible asset backed currency similar to the dollar when it was we had the gold standard. Could you unpack those? The three? The three kind of main points? And could you unpack them? Is there anything that you would add to that Manifesto, almost.

WhaleShark 15:41
So, you are right, it is very much a protest, having been in the financial sector for a very long time now. You know, I I wanted to create, or I think that there’s space to create a currency that really and truly holds a value of stable growth. So, just unpacking that those main points in terms of the manifesto that was set forth in the white paper, what we’re seeing around the world around the world is that, you know, once again, once once currencies deviated from the gold standard, basically, basically, countries and governments could just print money, right? They could print money, you know, to answer short term problems, without fully understanding the true complex inflation inflationary results that will happen or that have already started take place, many years down many years down the road. So once again, I think you making sure that we had something to back whale was very important to me, because once again, I came into the NFC NFT space relatively early, was able to collect some of the most valuable NF T’s from some of the the best artists in the space, the best creators in the space, the best companies in the space. And you know, once again, that assumption is, if you have something tangible, that is backing whale, that value will only continue to escalate over time, very similar to Picasso 50 years ago, and a Picasso today, you know, once again, there’s that stable growth that happens. So that’s the first thing, having something tangible, that will continue to grow steadily over time, that continues to provide a base value for the currency. The second point was, again, going back to money printing, you know, one of the one of the main things that cryptocurrency got, right was that you have a fixed, you have a fixed, you have a fixed, you have the fixed distribution, right? There’s no way for me to ever meant more than 10 million well. So you know, just having that in place ensures that there is not going to be while there’s not going to be any deflationary measures, they also won’t be any inflationary measures in the future. And then after that, the third point, mainly being, you know, once we’re able to put to combine these two things together, as well as combine it with defy based mechanisms. Basically, what you have is you have an incentive to make sure that people hold and not trade recklessly, like what we’ve seen with cryptocurrencies and most recently, most recently with defy whale is not meant to be a pump and get rich scheme. It’s meant to grow slowly over time, with some very strong fundamentals backing behind it.

Jamie Burke 18:37
Yeah. And what’s interesting, as well as that, not only is it so that the notice an antidote to existing financial system, some of the structural problems in crypto, but also if you look at the art market as an alternative asset class, that, of course, has its own structural problems, it’s incredibly elitist, it’s very difficult to participate at the blue chip and of the asset. And so here, there’s the opportunity for fractional ownership, which is actually solving lots of different problems, all in one, in quite an elegant way. So I’m really impressed. And so so let’s break down the world project into its constituent parts. As I understand that you have the world token, as you said, That’s backed by tangible rare NFT assets, and kind of limited supply. And then you have the vault which as you said, includes these NF T’s from the gods unchained, but also property from crypto voxels, sandbox and, and others. And is there any other any other constituent parts? And how do those two things work together?

Unknown Speaker 19:49

WhaleShark 19:50
Jimmy, you bring up a fantastic question, because over the last week, I’ve been trying to think of what this will look like five years from now what this will look like 10 years from now. I’m very much Price price to book ratio kind of guy, right? So, you know, I think you can see it in some of my writing as well as in terms of the way that whale is structured, I always want to ensure that the value proposition of whale is more or less in tandem with the price that it has on the market, sometimes very hard to do, because people do speculate. But that’s, that’s, that’s my nature. So basically, the constituents that I would bring up are, are several. So the first thing is that the base level value that you have is the vault. So the vault consists of 3000 to 4000, NF Ts, and it’s increasing every single month as I acquire more NF T’s and add them in. And then basically, what you have is you have a base value that continually escalates over time due to the rarity due to the scarcity of those NF T’s, I can tell you that the bulk of the value of the vault is actually is actually crypto art. So it’s art simply because I believe that it’s not like games games have a lifetime. Whereas art will continue to escalate as long as you have chosen the right artist. So the first constituent is the vault, the second constituent that you have is the well community itself. So we have a discord with to over 2000 members. And basically, you know, a lot of the times the value of something is dependent on the consensus of what a industry or what a community defines it to be. So basically, what happens is that the community, the discord, the will discord is actually a very important part of that value proposition equation, because you have, we have members sending about 250,000 messages a month, interacting, learning more, feeling like they’re valued members of the community. So that would be the second constituent of the value of whale. The third one we have is called whale FM. And this is really what I’ve been thinking about over the last couple of weeks is, you know, you have an increase in you have an increase in attention from various aspects of blockchain towards NF Ts. And what we’ve done is we’ve developed a educational system as well as the entertainment system that we call whale FM. It’s available on both the discord as well as on Twitch and I believe that we’re entering into YouTube over the next few days. But basically being able to use the whale branding, in order to educate people about NF T’s educate people about the artist and the creators behind NF T’s. And, and, and doing events, events and whatnot. So one of the other things that we do is I believe we have one of the largest weekly poker games,

we have, you know, we

get about, we’re getting about 70 to 80 players twice a week, they play for like four hours for a pot of, well, for a pot of 250 whale that used to be worth, they used to be worth maybe $50, back in the day. And now it’s now it’s encroaching over $1,000. So really,

you know, just

using whale FM and well events to create that engagement, I think that’s the third constituent of the value of whale, the fourth constituent and something that we launched very recently was something called whale tank. So understanding that this space is only going to continue to grow. What I did was I donated 200, eath, and the equivalent amount of whale into the uniswap liquidity pool, whereby due to the market demand of whale, a lot of that will will shift towards the chief balance, and being able to take that amount of money and invested in pre seed investments later on. So that’s more of a longer term goal. So saying, hey, the value is based on the vault, you have a community that drives the I would say that drives the additional value of whale. The third thing is being able to have whale FM to bring in more people into the community into the community, as well as keep them in the community. And then the fourth thing is for even higher returns using whale tank to drive precede investment and making sure that we’re backing the right products. So right now, once again, it’s still a five year roadmap that I’m trying to work out, but that’s where our thoughts are right now.

Jamie Burke 24:22
So when is this a full time job? Because you mentioned you’ve got other business interests? I mean, do you think you’re gonna make the jump? I mean, Surely you’ve got to write whatever you whatever else you didn’t can’t possibly be as interesting as this.

WhaleShark 24:35
Oh, Jimmy. I this is my passion. And, and, you know, just talking a tiny bit about myself. I actually run about five different businesses today. I’m you know, I’m not only I’m not only the founder of whale, but in sorry, in real life, I actually do run a artificial intelligence. company that works with some of the world’s largest, largest businesses. I run a venture capital firm, and a venture capital firm a mutual fund, as well as some other stuff startups that are coming out in the luxury apparel industry. It’s but, you know, once again, I think the success of projects is always mainly due to the quality of the teams that you build around each project. So you know, my ability to focus so much time on whale in this startup process is due to the fact that I have brilliant people running the other sides of the businesses that I own today. And I can tell you that I’m equally impressed with the team that’s building around Well, we have about 10 team members already, who are fully paid in well. And once again, they started off from the start of the product project. They believed in the project, and I think back then their salaries were about $200 based on the oil conversion back then, and right now it’s it’s it’s running at 5000 $6,000 a month, right. So I, honestly, while I would love to move eventually full time into whale, something that would make me even happier, especially with the fact that we’ve just introduced a Dhow mechanism in order to make decisions for the community, would be for me to eventually step back. Have the team run this project to success and have the community drive that success through the dowel mechanism that we’ve implemented. Interesting.

Jamie Burke 26:37
Well, you know, I’ve heard other founders talk about that. And some of them have actually done it, they’ve actually stepped away. And some of them have still around, and often not because they want to be but because the communities kind of lost that, that that sense of leadership. But at the same time, of course, you know, you speak to most projects in this space. And they speak about evolving governance to the community. So of course, that’s perfectly in line with that. One quick question before we go into principles, because you talk about community and clearly the way that you hold print community together is not code, right? It’s the code helps. But it’s actually a set of principles. And he been very clear in your articulation of them. But you talk about you have other business partners, do they know that you are whaleshark?

WhaleShark 27:29
They don’t know that I’m whaleshark. But because they don’t work, they don’t. They’re not in the blockchain. They’re not in the blockchain community. So they they do know what I’m doing. But I, you know, for lack of a better sentence, they don’t have an interest in this in this field of development. But no, I I don’t keep any secrets from my from my other business partners. They’re very, they’re very astonished.

I can tell you, with

with the with the group of well, they have told me, why didn’t Why didn’t you Why didn’t you force me to invest in the beginning? Yes, right. But no, they’re fully aware. They’re fully aware of my involvement in these projects.

Jamie Burke 28:11
So yeah, let’s go. Let’s get to principles. So again, you know, did it in a fairly rushed way. But the principles that I saw were retain capital in appreciating assets, strong hands, sale of any NFT assets, only at the right prices, and a few rental income for blockchain based properties, creation of sales, generating activity projects, events, publications, this is what you’re talking about earlier with FM donations and partnerships, and then direct NFT donations from Wireshark. I mean, again, I’m not sure they’re quite principles based but they’re certainly outlying activities is there is a some kind of meta principles that sits above those. So I

WhaleShark 28:51
think a lot I think, will attracted of community and a lot of the community members that shared the same values as I did, right. So I can just go through several of those principles that I adhere to. I think the first one is the first one is you know, it’s about investing rather than trading. There is a huge market and wonderful opportunities for traders who who buy and sell but honestly from from my own experience, I’ve made the largest amount of profit and the largest amount of money by truly investing and truly going deep into the space. So while you have seen all of those NF T’s in the vault JB I’m also very proud to say that we’ve never sold a single we haven’t sold a single one of them up today, literally today. No, we’ve never sold a single we’ve never sold a single NF t till today ever, ever. I’m a strong hands, right. But, but going back to that, I mean, it’s because we do Do a lot of due diligence before we invest in any single project. Once we buy into a project, we go in deep we go in for the long run, we’re not passive, right. So a lot of investors are only just, you know, they’re looking for that. They’re looking for that, that epic team, but, you know, they tend to be on the passive side. For example, what we did was crypto voxels. You know, once again, we have the highest holding of crypto voxels in the community. You know, we understood that in order for crypto voxels, to succeed, they needed to have content. It’s very much like social networking, right? social networks, the more content you have, the more chance that that project has to succeed. So we took every single one of those 200 parcels, and we rented them out for free to the crypto art community so that they could build and it was a win win win, right? It’s crypto voxels win because they get content, artists win because they have it they have they get their own gallery. And we win because because artists and crypto voxels have won the our crypto art holdings as well as our crypto voxel land prices will continue to escalate. So just those symbols first, I mean, the first one is number one we invest for the long we invest for the long term, we don’t trade. Number two, we’re extremely supportive of the projects that we invest in. And then number three, we’re also extremely financially disciplined. When you look at the structure of whale itself, we have no debt, no liability, no nothing. And, you know, on from the expense side, you know, all of the salaries and all of the payments and partnerships, they’re all paid out in whale, right, they’re part of the fifth monthly 50,000 wheel distribution. So essentially, what you have is you have a, you know, you have a machine that’s running on a virtuous cycle at this point in time. And I think the last principle that, you know, that we adhere to is, you know, we want positive growth, positive growth built on mutual respect. And, you know, what you can see is that a very large part of the whale that we distribute every single month, actually goes to projects within the NFT space, that were pioneers, whether that was pioneers in events, pioneers in podcasting. You know, and they’ve done some great things with that, like buying new equipment. You know, they were able to hire people to do websites. And you know, that just pushes the entire space forward. So if there was one guiding principle, above everything that we do, it’s really to be a force for good for the NFT space,

Jamie Burke 32:42
don’t you? And so, what do you describe, you can see the description of well being social currency come to life there in terms of both how people can presumably earn well, by carrying out community based activities? So can you just buy while on the open market? Or can you only earn it in the distribution, so

WhaleShark 33:07
I’ve committed to never selling? Well,

you know, that was part of one of the major changes between white paper one and white paper two. Once again, I think the regulations behind social tokens and you know how that constitutes, from a regulatory perspective where, once again, it’s always a grey area in the scale of risk. I didn’t want to provide the community with any risk whatsoever. So basically, I said, Hey, I’m never going to Market, I’m never going to market make whale, the only way that people are ever going to be able to get whale is through participating in the community.

And you know, all

people can buy well today, but then they can buy it on uniswap. But none of that whale is from pinwheel itself. It’s all from the members and the community members of whale. And it’s worked out, it’s worked out pretty great. A lot of the people who started in the beginning, I believe that this was the first time that they experienced, you know, thousand percent 2,000% gains. So I’m extremely happy for them. But this is something that can happen when the motivations of a project are not purely monetarily based. And I guess I’m lucky enough to be in the situation where I can, you know, continue to donate continue to push a project without profit being the primary driving factor.

Jamie Burke 34:31
Yeah, it’s interesting that this kind of secondary market will organically form so presumably, liquidity is going to be thin for a while. But you know, that that’s in line with your ambition for the project, you don’t necessarily want to kind of create this artificial speculation around it. So, again, I’ve kind of tried to get perspectives on you and it’s it’s it’s difficult when I’m not necessarily inside all the right decisions. channels to be blunt. So I’m kind of looking looking from the outside, from what I could see it looked like there was there was you alluded to earlier, I can’t remember whether we were on air or not, but that you feel that there’s even more craziness in in crypto art and nfcs than there is in. If I can use Word normal crypto, presumably toxicity comes with that I saw recent posts that you did, kind of really outlining the behaviours that you haven’t carried out that, you know, malpractice, effectively that that are in the market, such as wash trading, and people artificially create inflating the price of an asset and doing kickbacks to to artists. And could you explain that toxicity, the kind of malpractice the extent of the malpractice in the market, and I guess, you know, how, how you manage that, because I can see that, you know, you I think you responded to it really well, but it must be hard to not take it personally when, when you are being such a benevolent actor.

WhaleShark 36:09
So to start this off, I mean, I’m personally, you know, in the other fields that I operate in, I am extremely open with my identity, right, I’m standing up on stage speaking to 3000 people, it’s very, it’s very hard to hide behind a an avatar like I do in the NFT space. Once again, the main the main driving behind the requirement for my N, N, N, N, N, N a mini in the spaces is mainly due to some of that craziness that that one can expect in in NF Ts. I strongly believe that, you know, anonymity is, you know, it’s an empowering factor. So people who have good intentions, it’s going to make people better and people with bad intentions, you know, the become worse and and, you know, not many people will adhere to the principles that, you know, I wouldn’t say anything online that I wouldn’t really say in real life.

Unknown Speaker 37:07
It’s, it’s been extremely

WhaleShark 37:08
difficult because as the project has received, or, you know, as the project has received more fame within the space. And you know, as I began to collect a lot of different NF T’s within the space, there’s no doubt going to be people that has that are, they’re asking, Hey, why am I left behind? Hey, why isn’t he buying this? Why isn’t he buying that? Which really resulted in a huge amount of toxicity probably about a few months ago. But as a founder, I think it’s very, it’s so much more easier to just buckle down, focus on what’s important, block out the noise and just move forward with the positive aspects of what’s going on. So Jamie, that was really the way that I dealt with a lot of the toxicity that happened within the space a few months ago. Now, in terms of the industry as a whole I want I’ll tell you, I mean, I think 99% of the industry is gold. There’s not a lot of there’s not a lot of that kickback, and wash trading behaviour, it tends to be very centralised, in a couple of platforms. But what these people who do initiate these sort of behaviours to understand is that the blockchain is internal, right? One of the reasons why we love the blockchain is because it’s immutable. I might have you know, that there are several instances where I’ll take a look at it. And you know, once again, I’ll just, I’ll just use ether scan, and I’ll follow back all of the, all of the transactions. And you know, while I might not say anything about it today, it’s there forever. So if they did do it, someone sooner or later is just going to go there and and and might or might not publicise it. So, you know, I think it’s very important that while anonymity does empower and does empower you, it’s also very important that you’re very responsible about the things that you do, because anything, any financial transaction that you make on the blockchain, is there for everyone to see for eternity?

Jamie Burke 39:13
Yeah, absolutely. And so do you think it’s the over dominance as a whale of of the project? Is it that people feel you said the left behind that the asset class could become inaccessible? Or is it just bad feeling because people are left out of the curation or a mixture of all those things?

WhaleShark 39:35
I think whenever

whenever a lot of money’s involved, Jamie, you know it, it’s going to bring up euphoria is going to bring up jealousy is going to bring up a lot of different positive and negative emotions.

You know, I can only speak to my own experience.

But you know, I a lot, you know, it’s I have a singular focus to collect

Unknown Speaker 39:59

WhaleShark 40:00
best NF T’s from the best artists in the space. And you know, hopefully, and hopefully and usually this, and this is what I need to adhere to is that they’re also they’re also wonderful people, right? I guess what you’ll find with NF t spaces, because you’re attracting such a wide variety of creators and creatives, you know, not all the time, are people always going to have the same viewpoints on values, or the same viewpoints on ethics. Right. I think that’s something that I’ve come to understand, having entered the space. So you know, with the money also comes those very extreme negative or positive reactions.

Jamie Burke 40:45
Yeah. And so how do you? How do you ensure that you don’t over dominate the industry of if you’re, could you could you become too successful? And do you have any principles around accessibility? So I know you mentioned earlier, you have some virtual spaces, is there some kind of commitment to making sure that this art is available? From a viewing perspective?

WhaleShark 41:10
I think from a dominance perspective, a lot of people believed in the early days that, you know, you know, people, collectors, like myself, or collectors like moderates, we would eventually end up dominating the crypto art space, I guess it was simply because of the amount that we were spending. But really, if you took if you took a helicopter view, and looked and looked at it from a macro level, when they analysed it, you know, I, we were only investing I think, up to, you know, at most five to 10% of the total space, and that was when there were no other large collectors today, you know, I would say that the value of the value of what we invest within the spaces is definitely less than 1%. So I think it was just the prominence and the, and the sudden entry, right of that money that really caused people to say, Oh, you know, whales are going to dominate the space and, you know, wheels are going to dictate the tastes of the industry. When honestly, when honestly, you know, I’ve never felt more than like a drop in the ocean. So, you know, I I and, you know, I don’t I think the space is large enough for multiplayer multiple players to succeed. Ken will become too successful. You know, I for the community sake, I really do hope so. But, you know, I always think that there’s going to be new players is going to be people who bring a lot more positivity to space that’s going to drive that’s going to be able to drive this. Got you.

Jamie Burke 42:44
So let’s get into this, as you call it DeFi analyzation. That’s quite hard to say, of wale, and then also, the role that you think NF T’s can play in DeFi to go kind of almost DeFi 2.0, to go beyond what DeFi is today with this kind of crazy food farming and yield farming. What’s your what’s your big vision there?

Unknown Speaker 43:10
Okay. So I think the biggest

WhaleShark 43:14
joy of finding a founding whale and actually doing this social token was that it allowed me to use a lot of skill sets that I had, that I developed over, over over the last 20 years. Right. Um, you know, one of the main thing main points about wale was that we were looking for stability. And you you highlighted it just now liquidity, right. A lot of people who start social tokens, you know, they might not have the same understanding of the economics behind social tokens. But starting off, well, we immediately knew that, you know, the liquidity in uniswap was extremely important for achieving that goal of price stability. If even if you take a look at the chart of Well, right now, you’ll see that the growth is relatively stable without a lot of dips and jumps. It’s grown very quickly. But the path to growth has been extremely stable. And one of the reasons why is because learning from Alex, who’s actually a social token, also a social token in the space, but mainly sways towards DeFi was that you know, by using liquidity mining, we would be able to grow that liquidity base so that sells and buys wouldn’t influence the price that much. When we first started out I think we first started out liquidity mining, I want to say about one and a half months ago, our total uniswap liquidity pool was roughly about 30,000 40,000 US dollars. And today we are edging at 150,000 probably projected to cross a million towards the end of this month. And what that what what that has done it’s it’s really removed the volatility from the price of oil, so that so that traders cannot come in. And and and and and pump and dump the market in order to get short term profits. So that was

the the

defile ization of well, in addition to that what we also did to encourage hold is we developed what we call hold to play roles. So basically what community members can do is they can stake 500 whale in order to become what we call a whale whale. Or they can stake 11 whale to become what we call a dolphin. And what these two different roles do is it gives them access to different community events as well as different whale drops. Once again, the more whale that is state, the more well that is tied up, the less whale there is going to be traded on the liquidity market, resulting in price jumps and dips. In terms of NFT mining, this is something that I was really excited about. Once we launched liquidity mining, we thought about, hey, how can we take liquidity mining and adapt it to the NFT side? Basically, what we have right now is we have a two part NFT mining mechanism. The first thing is that we established a 2000 will reward pot for selected artists who would launch pieces and empty masterpieces, only for sale for well. And basically at the end of each month, we would take a look at these 10 artists. And we would distribute that 2000 will reward part to them based on their percentage of sales. So that’s the first part. But you know, once again, this sort of NFT mining only rewards the artists but doesn’t reward the liquidity miners. So what we decided to do is we took it one step forward, and we said hey, so let’s say an artist creates an addition of xR pieces. What happens if we if we bought one using our whale reserves and after that, drop it through lucky draw to the top 100 to one of the top 100 liquidity miners of whale then after that what you see if we’ve completed the circle. So we’ve completed the cycle by saying hey, critters are now able to earn well just by creating an fps and liquidity miners are now not only able to earn whale, you know, they’re not only be able to mine a social token, but they’re also able to mine NF peas as well.

Jamie Burke 47:23
Wow, that’s great. Look, I mean, it’s been fantastic talking to you. What I normally do is at the end, I tried to fit in a couple of questions from Twitter. You’ve actually answered a few so at Chapman asked about the difference between dolphins and whales, which you already covered off. Jamie Anson asked about your has your attitude of being a mean versus a person changed? I think you kind of covered that off. There were some shameless plugs by voxel architects. I think you asked me about your new building crypto voxels was that them? Did they build that?

WhaleShark 47:57
Oh, yes, they did. Actually there there you go there it did you take a look at that yet.

Jamie Burke 48:01
I didn’t get to look at it. Now. I only got your screen grabs, right I think there was some screen grabs you share the China the Chinese one,

WhaleShark 48:08
the Chinese one. It’s the wheel pagoda. So that was actually built for the well China community that’s coming and there China is also just waking up to NF T’s as well. So we’re going to actually using that as a meeting place for the world China community moving forward.

Jamie Burke 48:23
Wow. And then we had a question from in his mid Meadow what’s your top three forms of advice to an aspiring crypto artists to kind of break through in the space

WhaleShark 48:36
so it would be number one you need to make sure that your art is visible on on one of the one of the platforms you know once again whether that’s super rare makers place known origin variable or open sea so once again be be be be brave about posting your art. Number two, you know, be brave about promoting your art. You know, one of the things that one of the worst things that artists can do is is not have a social presence, and be able to tell the audience more about what their art is about. And I think the third thing is tell us how you created it. I think many times collectors We not only appreciate the end result, but we also appreciate the process.

Jamie Burke 49:19
Yeah, and then final question Where was it from from Jimmy’s? Why do you love our stars NFT so much.

Unknown Speaker 49:29
I think

WhaleShark 49:30
ever stars is one of the most highly underrated projects in nfx in the NFT space today. Basically what NF whatever stars have done and actually Jimmy the the the profile picture that you actually see over there.

On my profile pic is actually an avatar.

Basically it is a random generated fully on chain of data that is developed by avatars, you know you can you can scroll through. You can Scroll through it and it’ll automatically piece these different elements of the face together. And when it’s done, and once you meant it, you know all of that copyright and all of that commercial usage belongs to you. You know, moving forward. The metaverse is going to be something very important within the NFT space. There has to be some sort of fully on chain. Way to be able to have your own your own avatar as you walk through it as you walk through the metaverse and I think avatars is very far ahead on their thinking, in terms of being able to develop, develop something like this. So you know, that’s why I love it so much. I actually own 20 I want to say 25 of the hundred founder avatars that they launched. And you know, I know that they have a lot of great things planned moving forward.

Jamie Burke 50:49
That’s a shame. So there’s no clues in that avatars. It’s totally random. So we can’t unpick your identity without shame.

WhaleShark 50:58
Take off that. I’ll tell you this. I definitely do not wear top hat. I definitely do not wear steampunk glasses and I definitely do not have a beard.

Jamie Burke 51:05
Okay. All right, good stuff. Well, look, it’s been a real pleasure talking to you. Thanks for coming on the show with such short notice. And really excited to see what happens with the project. I’m more than sure that you’re going to be fielding a lot of journalists calls in mainstream media soon because I think this is going to dry some really positive interest both in terms of crypto generally but then of course, NF T’s and defies so thanks for everything you do.

WhaleShark 51:33
Thank you so much for me, I had a blast.

Jamie Burke 51:38
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