Sebastien, a serial entrepreneur and gaming veteran talks about his vision for an Open Metaverse. Enabled by blockchain and new models, like play-to-earn, to allow economics between creator supply, user demand and virtual consumption.
We discuss the idea of content-as-the-platform and user created, and owned, NFTs as virtual goods, how that interacts with DeFi (Decentralised Finance) and how it promises new levels of financial education, and literacy, to the next generation.
Jamie Burke 0:13
You’re an early stage web three founder apply to our award winning accelerator programme base camp at Outlier ventures.io slash base camp, we write your first $50,000 check and give you access to 200 mentors, including many of the leading web three founders, and a network of 1000 of the world’s leading investors and exchanges. We’ve helped over 30 startups from 15 countries from all around the world raise 100 and $30 million in crowdfunding. It can help you fast track product market fit and where relevant the launch of your token Okay, so today I’m really happy to welcome co founder and CEO sandbox Sebastian Bouygues. Welcome to the show.
Sebastien Borget 0:55
Thanks for having me. And hello everyone who is listening today.
Jamie Burke 0:59
you describe yourself as an advocate for NF T’s in blockchain games. You are developer and pioneer in the blockchain gaming space, very central to the NFT community, non fungible token community, and also president of the blockchain gaming Alliance. The sandbox is a community driven platform where creators can monetize voxel assets and we’ll get you to explain that a little bit later, and gaming experiences on the Ethereum blockchain. The project’s been going for around two years. So the reason why I wanted you on the show there are several. So with sandbox, you’re working at the intersection of gaming and FTS and DeFi. And so I really want to explore this convergence of communities, technologies and philosophies. coingecko you’d be making great traction with the sandbox project, but also sand your token. coin Gecko launched the top NF T’s coin by market cap and San token was in the top 10. You have supervised the production and marketing of the studio’s most popular titles. doodle group and the sandbox lap. The sandbox franchise has three episodes, and it’s been downloaded more than 40 million times in total. So huge success. Both binance and Wireshark pro Wireshark Pro is one of the world’s largest NFT collectors actually had him on the podcast last week, and are the two largest landowners in sandbox the game again, we’ll unpack exactly what I mean by that a bit later. And you’re really attracting top talent from the entertainment industry, including a Tron Levy, former global VP of Universal Music, who joined as VP of licencing and brand partnerships and you’ve been getting some good success as well with some really interesting brands. So lots and lots to talk about there. So what I’m going to do is just contextualise you as a as a guest I’ll do my best to give the origin story Feel free to correct elaborate, where appropriate. So you hold a computer science engineering degree from telecom sued Paris, one of France’s leading graduate schools for engineering in information communication technology, your master’s in computer system networking telecommunications, from the Chinese University of Hong Kong, you are serial entrepreneur with, from what I could see 12 years experience in startups of that eight in mobile gaming to in blockchain and exploring a number of different innovative business models in the space you from 2007 to 11. Were co coo at wixey. Prior to that, you’ve done a number of different projects. Again, very linked to entertainment, Universal Music, AV video, etc. you founded pixel owl, nine years ago, more than nine years ago, actually no nine years ago founded in 2011. Grew that to about 45 people in a very international team. And together you built the family mobile network or a social mobile games platform based on characters IP what’s characters IP?
Sebastien Borget 4:10
Well, it’s CG builder games with Snoopy, Garfield goosebumps Addams Family, those are kind of IPS that we’re creating games. Wait,
Jamie Burke 4:21
okay, so you would you would licence we Degner character
Sebastien Borget 4:24
Yes, we licence the those IPS and we create games that involve the characters from those IPS like Snoopy being and the other all the IPS the strengths of IPS is usually within the stories of the characters and the fact that fans and players can relate to them they already know the background and context of who they are etc. And we found that with video games is a great match in general, and I pixel we liberate that for well over nine years now creating successful city builder again, that I’ve been engaging players, for some of them for over five years. And quite surprisingly, and I think it’s one of our strengths like those game did monetize better five years later than when they launched initially weld together with the 3d movie in theatres, for example, showing that we can create long term retaining games. And we leverage all that experience within sandbox as well. So that’s part of our background working with IPS and brand.
Jamie Burke 5:29
Fantastic. Yeah, and I think definitely going to pick up a little bit later on how brands are beginning to engage with NF T’s especially in a gaming context. So pixel ours acquired by I don’t know how to pronounce this. Amie cola.
Sebastien Borget 5:44
Yeah, I need mocha brains.
Jamie Burke 5:46
Okay, there you go. And the description of that company is it leverages gamification, blockchain and AI to develop and publish a broad portfolio of games. The sandbox was one of them crazy kings and crazy defence heroes was another. And I think they have a pedigree and a lot of this this brand work as well, right brand engagement and licencing.
Sebastien Borget 6:09
Absolutely, they are one of the pioneers in blockchain and IP licencing. So started in 2017, with investment into crypto kitties and publishing the Asian version of it. And now they have like a whole portfolio of games and m&a activities in the space launching f1 Delta time launching Moto GP on the blockchain, the recently announced bringing star augers and these squares and other IPS on the floor blockchain by dapper labs, to really pushing up together as a group, the space we sandbox and the animoca brands product involving to blockchain game.
Jamie Burke 6:48
Yeah, and that’s really exciting. Again, I had the dapper labs row ham, on the podcast A while back, and it’s really great to see that level of collaboration within industry, I think it’s what’s gonna really drive the space forward and build momentum. So in 2018, you co founded sandbox, within amico. And it was that the the franchise or this particular instance, because you said it’s a franchise of three episodes was that the first episode was founded in 2018.
Sebastien Borget 7:21
So the first sandbox was created in 2012, as in the iOS and Android game, then the sequel was launched in 2016, called the sandbox evolution. And in 2018, we started at the end of 2017, we started to work in this new 3d multi platform multiplayer version that used blockchain technology, more specifically lfts, and native token called San, and we announced it by it was what it was July 2018, at chinajoy in Shanghai. And, and from there, we continue developing the platform for now over two years, releasing progressively the values product, the free JD drug called Vox in the marketplace, the game maker are all live in alpha beta and the game client, which will, which will be like what players can can can use to play the games made by creators, which will launch in beta in 2020. And so this new version, the 3d version, we we decided to spin out as a separate company that that raised funds in 2019, we raised $4.5 million, with investors like Square Enix, the video game company, toolable, venture harshed, and a few other idle crypto investor or equity investor, traditional VC, which investors. And we’ve been operating that company, which is now has grown to 70 people in total. So it’d be going really large to build this new version, that use blockchain that uses an FTA that you send token. And that’s really the vision we have for a collaborative metaverse with community driven community based interoperability with NF T’s and all the things that we’re going to talk about today.
Jamie Burke 9:15
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting that you managed to convince traditional investors at least in the context of gaming, to invest in crypto, maybe not directly, maybe indirectly, but I think I’m trying to understand the attitude of the gaming industry towards crypto towards NF T’s is really interesting. One of our portfolio company crucible that went through the accelerator, and there’s really interesting watching them, you know, speak to the various gaming engines and what have you, so be really great to get your perspective on how the gaming industry is, is feeling towards NF T’s at this current point. So maybe that’s a good segue into My first question which is really to, to understand how you see the convergence of gaming, NF T’s and defy happen, obviously, it’s not new. It’s just perhaps, of increasing interest, certainly within the crypto space, NF T’s have kind of almost come out of nowhere to a lot of people, a large majority of people. But of course, there’s been a huge amount of industry and work and investment going in over the last couple of years since since 2017. So So what’s happening? What is what is the convergence? Where Where is the momentum coming from? Is it from from blockchain to gaming? Or is it from gaming to blockchain?
Sebastien Borget 10:47
All right. Yes, many points that I think we can address here like first, like Hall, I believe, like what your first question was, like, how did we convince like investor from the traditional gaming industry to believe in our vision? And? Well, I think it comes down to, like there was we have assembled a great team team that has already experienced into making successful traditional games that have been downloaded minion of time and has been kept making revenue and engaging through live ops for years after the launch, as I mentioned before, so we were not like newcomers with no experience into making games. So that’s, that’s been one of our strengths, we have our eight years of experience with making games. And that’s why like, when you incorporate a new technology, and you have no experience into making games, this is usually a recipe for disaster. But if you have strong experience into by Well, you’ve crafted your expertise, you’ve shown that you can build successful games that make revenue plus you combine and innovative technology, and you know, like where you want to head towards, like within the next five to 10 years, I think investors feel more reassured. So I’m not saying like, it’s going always to be a disaster, just definitely great people who disrupt the space without necessarily being 20 years in the industry. But investors tend to make more like safer bets, rather than to be too much risk on the risk side, which specifically when they are looking at a blockchain and that’s why the sandbox as well as and mocha brand as a broader group have been able to convince a large number of them to bet on us. Now, the broad question behind is like, everything that we’ve Our team has been achieving for the past two years. And I think that’s something like we can really be proud of our team is like we have with I’ve been delivering on our milestone, like everything that we’ve communicated transparently announced, etc. We’ve shown that right, there’s the FreeBSD door, it’s a product, you can download it already on PC and Mac, you can play with it, you can export your creation, we have thousands of artists who are using it now on daily basis to produce content, and they start uploading it to our marketplace, we have done length resale on our marketplace. And I can talk a little bit more further after on what was easy to land and what these maps were selling. And we’ve sold systematically over four rounds of part of the map with great success with more demand and supply and showing that we could interest people that are beyond the sphere of crypto investors or crypto gamers. So we show that we can bring artists who never know about anything about blockchain technology or crypto and onboard them on the platform before get them interested to our son and earn own land as well. So get them engaged within the vision of the platform and be among our best community ambassadors. And we’ve shown that we can also bring huge IPS huge brand within our virtual world, differentiating ourselves. But first using the experience that we have accumulated for years in the space of IPS and brands and differentiating ourselves from Minecraft Roblox fortnight and or potentially older, decentralised, virtual world where we are not focused on the gaming or on the IP side necessarily. And all of that, I think, is a great recipe for well, onboarding more users towards the use of the technology. We keep in mind always that the primary goal is to create a fun experience something that you want to play, you want to keep coming to every day and engage with without necessarily any knowledge of crypto or blockchain or even knowing this crypto or blockchain involved at some point. And we’ve achieved we are going to achieve that through the use of IPS brand celebrities. That’s also why we were recently hired by Tony v as our VP of licencing. And brand partnership. And you will see that work and expertise at Universal Music before. And we have all those successful IPS partnership like carebears that we announced recently Atari or Coaster Tycoon Shaun the Sheep, just to name a few. And we have even larger brands upcoming, it’s still work in progress. It takes time, like,
like what you’re seeing where sandbox is, right now, don’t forget that it took us two years or more to reach that point. And that’s something maybe because right now, and if t space is growing and exploding, even like, which is really exciting, people tend to think like you can build a great product in three days and a huge return on investment in maybe one day. No, it’s the fault of building an IP for eight years and building a new version of a product for two years now. And we’ll keep doing that for three years, five years. 10 years actually, that’s that’s how far our vision and roadmap goes. Because that just Realistically speaking, when we look at fortnight when we look at Minecraft, and Roblox that’s how long those games have been built, live and operating. So it’s a long road, we are committed to continue delivering on our different milestone roadmap, keep building our product launch the first public beta in December 2020. But again, it’s just a first public beta. So it means like, it will give you a taste a taste of the experience, but there will be so much more coming on the next month after as we keep updating it. And we have a fantastic community that it took time to build it took time to get people to understand what we are trying to do, and to Adair to to be three to follow the vision to share the vision and even to speak even better than we do in their own words about what we are doing. We have launched values incentive as well for creators and game makers to start participating on the platform and be rewarded for the work they bring for the amazing content that they create those through the crater fun and the game maker fund, you can start seeing, we are very transparent. So you can see you can download our product, you can try yourself, you can see the craters publish the creation on the marketplace or on social media. They make amazing content, amazing videos as well. You can see on live twitch stream creators creating real time with the product. So that’s I think those are the kind of thing that when someone is not involved into blockchain or crypto, but they’ll just regular gamer or regular person when they see so much about the game. I think it starts sparkling in their eyes like oh, I want to try that. They don’t think about blockchain, I just want to try the product. And we’ll keep going on to what the direction to grow sandbox.
Jamie Burke 18:18
Yeah, and so I definitely want to get into the kind of constituent parts. Increasingly, as I speak to people like yourself, who are working in a different subset of NF t space. Increasingly, I’m convinced that you can look at especially in the gaming context, it from a few different lenses. So kind of coming back to that that question around the convergence of gaming, NF T’s and d phi. So on the one hand, as you say, especially in the gaming context is about play. It’s an it’s about experience, and about community. And so in the way that superare is building a community around digital arts, you know, you’re building a community around an experience, a playful experience. And but at the same time, you know, you mentioned so the moment that community is creators, makers, and they are, in a way speculating on the assumption that the users will come. And so you’re kind of starting with the content. And if you do the right content, then then the users will come. And, but ultimately, they’re building assets. And those assets can be traded and speculated upon whether that’s the land or the end game assets and stuff. And then presumably, they can become collateral. And so this is another really interesting thing, potentially in in with defy that people could start to borrow or lend against collateral in sandbox. And so certainly, that’s how how I see all of these things coming together. I don’t know if you see it in a similar way or a different way.
Sebastien Borget 20:00
Think, essentially, we have one of the first layer of creating NF T’s that have a real value attached behind. And as such, owners in the ecosystem can develop values, incentive and mechanism to use that value. If, if our if the assets made by the Creator were not valuable in any way, or if the land are no value, no one would want to build like, or we won’t, no one would want to accept lands as a collateral of something, etc. so far as the primary goal always is like, Okay, how do we define value? How do we make sure that all the content that’s produced by us with the IPS, for example, like Kiev, etc, or by the community of creators, since we are a user generated content platform as value, so we’ve defined a system inspired by gaming, gaming gain balance and game design mechanism. That that makes that the NF T’s on sandbox platform, our real game items is the attributes, attribute points and attributes. They are score CG under Rarity, and the other utility attach behind. Like, as a game assets can be used in the game maker to create game experience, they come with behaviours like a dragon can be a boss, and enemies are more or less powerful, better defence, better speed kind of thing. You have lands lands, if they were lands just sitting by themselves, and you could do nothing, I don’t think they would be interesting. In the eyes of so many people, they are interesting because they are located at a specific point on the map, which are close more or less close to interest point, those interests point being our social Earth being the brands and partners that are on the map, as well as zR the main way, the primary way to access the monetization mechanism on sandbox as a creator. So if you want to publish your game experience and start earning sand in sandbox platform, you actually need the land. So that’s why and that, that’s pretty clear. It was it’s pretty easy and accessible to understand that you don’t need to understand. Whereas just more complex financial mechanism where you need to, it takes some time to start understanding what does it mean to loan to collateralize to have financial incentive related to staking yield, etc. Like if you explained that to a kid of 10 years, ever, he will not understand. But if you say look, you have a space, you start selling stuff on MySpace, well, it makes revenue Yeah, like I get it. It’s like a business a commerce restaurant shop. And that’s why lands and in a way virtual real estate has been really easy to communicate to the larger public. There was recently on Twitter someone who posted a that I told my dad I bought the land and my dad congratulated me like he was so happy for me etc. Then I told him it was a virtual land in a virtual world and he just walked out of the room. I think that that that front, it made me laugh, but it translate very well as well like the paradigm shift between the older generation thinking still estate in terms of only physical real world, and the new generation who understand that virtual real estate in those virtual worlds that are going to last a decade or more can be usually variable. If and only if if you do something on it also like if you just sit on it, there might be no opportunity but and that’s that’s where we ending like I hope my kids are going to build successful business in the digital world or do you go down work, play, engage socialise in virtual worlds, potentially more than in the physical world specifically where we are at now with Coronavirus etc. And, and that’s the vision for the metaverse like, I mean, not just one but a series of virtual world that can be interconnected or through the use of blockchain technology and NF T’s having the content in each other, the avatar so your identity as an NFT that you can use across all those different worlds. Building a value that that underlying and enable the free trading permissionless trading of goods and monetization. It’s a key layer that’s going to really revolutionise
in general everyone everybody’s life. Some people not I didn’t invent everything, my anything here I’m just quoting some people like economies etc. They already talking about this fourth industrial revolution. Where we are all going to produce value work, leave play in virtual worlds, and then we’ll the economy of the virtual world will get bigger than the economy of the real world.
Jamie Burke 25:13
Yeah, I mean, it’s fascinating. Exciting, right? Yeah. I mean, it’s fascinating to think about sandbox or other equivalent environments worlds, as potentially being an environment for the financial education of, you know, younger generations, I was always, you know, incredibly critical of the lack of financial education that I got, or how late I got it in life. And so this summer, I had the experience, you know, in lockdown with my daughter, she’s seven of trying to get her into Animal Crossing. She was she was a disappointing entrepreneur put it that way I couldn’t, I couldn’t get it, she, I think she’s gonna have to go into a different profession, to me. But it was also very limited in terms of the experience that you could have around those assets. So I really like the idea that the context to these assets is important to their value. And of course, that that kind of stickiness, but also this idea that because what happens in something like sandbox, or any virtual world is going to be experienced spillover into environments like Twitch, but also NF T’s generally, you know, as a, as a asset, they are visually appealing generally, whether it’s a digital art or a collectible, that easy to understand. And therefore they have kind of this breakout potential in existing social environments, whether that’s Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, or what have you. So I think there’s a real promise there to bring in the masses into into these worlds or into into Crypto and web three through these virtual environments. So let’s break down the constituent parts of sandbox a little bit more, you’ve alluded to a couple of elements, but be great to, to be clear on that. So as I said, the sandbox game at the moment is in alpha, public beta is in December, December 2020. And currently, the community are creators, not not players. You have a couple of elements marketplace, Vox edit the San token, it’d be good to understand those those building blocks or functions of the ecosystem and how they interplay.
Sebastien Borget 27:29
Right. Well, I think that’s very relevant. And I want you to add to the previous answer that also sandbox is one of the first projects that we implementing play to earn like and how is this play to earn business model implemented? And what it is exactly? The answer is exactly the answer to your question. So play to earn his business model where players can enter a game or virtual world like sandbox. And without necessarily making any upfront payment can be totally free. They can they can earn rewards, you can earn tokens through the playtime through the engagement time and their skills as a player, and they can convert the product of their playtime here, for example, actually tokens into Fiat revenue at real world money using and the potential of play to earn is really increased with the use of blockchain technology and tokens because the value of these tokens can appreciate over time over the demand, and actually over the contribution. So more and more players actually participating create a general generally a more wealthy ecosystem for everyone. There’s value growth, not valued attrition, so that’s a good use case. And it’s sandbox. How we are building this play to earn is through a combination of different actors in our ecosystem in our platform and the different tokens underlying we have on sandbox we have players, we have artists who make the asset, we have game creator, make the game experience, we are potentially curators who are in charge of reviewing the content on the shop on the gallery helping to feature we have people who are seized in the community who will help onboarding new players who provide support and also incentive. And depending on your profile of user, you’re going potentially to values activity, players are going to enter the game they are going to give some play time to find resource gems, some of them called gems and get at least collect them. And creators actually do need Jenson catalyst to make assets that are more or less poor food in their games. So he made money but craters maybe they don’t want to start spend too much time to play. So that’s already like potential fair trade of value with two parties involved that need resource mutually from each other. And that’s what we call the circular economy in sandbox. So we think that the no matter what everyone brings to sandbox ecosystem in terms of like time value content, there is a way for them to be rewarded in tokens and ultimately in San token that can appreciate and that they can convert into the exchange that also partners like binance, or we listed recently on will be on was Eric siemian. Job crypto.com. And or more exchange two.
Jamie Burke 30:44
Yeah, I mean, it’s fascinating to think through how you’re designing that virtual economy, and the interactions between players and creators and and rewarding them. In a way it’s kind of a new form of mining, right, you know, you’re minting new asset and supply based upon participation, contribution of time results.
Sebastien Borget 31:05
Exactly. It’s active engagement. Of course, you can also earn passive engagement. And we just actually right one hour ago, we announced our San liquidity mining, where if you stake San and eath, on our uniswap pool, and you stake your LP tokens, then you can receive a part of the reward inside. So there should be always, as I mentioned, incentive for every contributor or actors within our ecosystem, sign holders are part of it. Like we have over 180,000, according to latest public figures, people who own or hold San tokens. And we thought that was also a great way for them to benefit from, in a way from the growth of the ecosystem and the platform as well. But if you come, if you stake down and you also play or create, there should be an extra reward for the more active participation and more active contribution as well to evaluate the overall vibe.
Jamie Burke 32:09
And so there’s something else I’ve heard you talk about called IP collaborations in the context of virtual estate. Could you could you tell us more about that?
Sebastien Borget 32:16
So Well, it’s always been our approach to leverage big brand IPS and celebrities and give them a presence in via tried words. In sandbox when we did the mobile gaming sandbox. First, we add Pac Man we attract we add Ghostbusters as events time limited events in the game, but creators could use the characters from those games into into them into the creation, the 2d world that they shared on an online gallery, however, with so that’s just logical that we use the same experience and we just enhance it with blockchain. So we’ve done it with Atari Shaun the Sheep. But even more recently, we scale bears, we’ve given them a presence in our metaverse with on within our map, and we give them we created limited game assets that can be used by creators to make their own stories, adventures and game using their favourite characters. That’s, I think, a great combination. So socializer people who are not willing to create games, you can still come within, let’s see, like, if you’re familiar with carebears, there has to be scalar load kingdom, which is like a magical place with kingdom and rainbows and clouds, etc. Where you can just come and chat and hang around with other players. If you’re courageous, then you can build adventures with, with your fairy bears, and it can be a platformer that can be even fighting games, if you want to you like all the things that you used to do. Maybe when you were a kid playing with figurines and plastic toys, creating your own stories, because we all like rhesus kids. Like we create stories with characters. Now you can do the same within? Well, we need games,
Jamie Burke 34:16
I’m definitely not going to admit on the podcast that I used to play with carebears when I was a kid, that definitely didn’t, definitely didn’t happen. So I mean, I guess the
Sebastien Borget 34:27
is one among the others. Yes, we have many more brands, just for the sake of the example.
Jamie Burke 34:32
I know my I think my daughter would would would love it now. And so of course, you said at the moment that there are no users, its creators. So I’m guessing, to be able to get brands to engage with an environment where there aren’t yet users. scarcity helps that right because they realise that there will be a premium. If they wait, presumably is that as scarcity of assets land Has that been a motivating factor in getting brands to engage early before their users? Or is it just purely on your kind of reputation?
Sebastien Borget 35:10
That’s to perspective, like from the user side, always, I think being a pioneer of being an early adopter of a product should be, should give you some rewards. When you’re early adopter in like a sass platform or online service, sometimes you get free access forever for your lifetime, or you get some perks that users who who are coming late at a later stage don’t. And that’s because you’re going to contribute with your feedback, you’re going to help the team shape a better product. So we just feel natural. And we’ve done that by offering progressive discounts over our land pre sales, but on the IDs and brand sides, they have different perspective, what are brands looking for they are looking for engagement reaching out to more people. So they most of them are never going to be the pioneers or early adopters within something. They are going to wait like, like for something like fortnight’s become huge have hundreds of millions of active users to finally figure out Oh, it’s time we do something in fortnight because there’s so many of our customers in fortnight. And then. But so we, I think it’s there’s something in the middle between like that we are working to bridge. The idea is like, as you build and you bring more and more brands starting maybe with smaller brands, then you progressively they will see like, Wow, that’s cool, what they did out it worked actually on dev origins now etc. So it will convince more and more to come progressively. And that’s why usually they are we’re really happy with the collaboration with carebears. For example, because it even though they are a brand that has been out there for over 25 years, they have they have essentially been on boarded with blockchain. They love taking risk there. And they were among the first same with Atari. It’s a video game brand that’s been out there since the beginning of video game industry. And now they are among the pioneers as well in blockchain with the Atari VCS blockchain console, and several games that use motion degrees that are going to be made by animoca brands, which is exciting. I think that’s it’s great to have those partners with us in sandbox.
Jamie Burke 37:46
So that’s a great segue into the work that you’re doing as president of the blockchain game Alliance, which is bringing together as you say, established players with new new participants from the crypto space blockchain gaming world. Could you tell us a little bit about some of the different participants there? And
Unknown Speaker 38:05
Sebastien Borget 38:06
sure. Well, the blockchain game Alliance is a nonprofit organisation that counts over 150 members now. We’ve been We are excited to see more and more members coming up every month. I guess it’s thanks to the efforts we put in organising more meetups, having more live stream content and giving more visibility to all the members that are some of our sponsors and key members include animoca brands, Ubisoft, IMD, consensus chromia algorand. And maker dow magic are among the sponsors. So the big and then we have a large range of blockchain games, traditional game media, and then now even development solution change and protocol now and even actually, investors. So it’s great to see like, we are able to bring this special space where all the different actors of the ecosystem are connecting and working towards the same goal, which is essentially to to promote the use of blockchain technology by leading, leading by example, to walk the bigger industry, which is the video game industry.
Unknown Speaker 39:27
Jamie Burke 39:28
let’s go back to that big vision, metaverse big vision and that you were discussing at the beginning of the podcast. So I’ve heard the term content is the platform. And I guess that’s kind of linked to this idea around portability, that you’re you can own something or have value in one environment and you can port it into another environment. Could you could you explain this vision of content as the platform and how that fits into your big vision for the metaverse.
Sebastien Borget 40:00
Well, when it’s clear here, like one of the strong innovation that NF T’s are growth is indeed the fact that you have NF Ts, those are assets can leave outside of the game they were initially created for. They can be used by older games, thanks to this, the possibility of interoperability. And it means essentially that the NF T’s can carry their own distribution. So you don’t need to have like one game with NF t to actually promote those NF T’s. You can have the NF T’s on the marketplaces, you can have the NFT in the player wallets as a way to attract those players who own those NFT into new games new experience, it becomes a user acquisition strategy, it becomes a distribution platform of its own. So that’s why I think it’s pretty exciting. And in sandbox vision, as we are user generated content, the actual word. And if these are not made by us, they are made by the creators themselves using our NFT maker Vox edit. So you we give users the power the possibility to make their own NFT. To and to make their own promotion and distribution of it through it. So that’s that’s, I think, some very interesting possibility. We have seen example of the content we make in sandbox already used usable on older product or the platform or the blockchain or a few values, partnerships. And that’s also one step toward this promise of this metaverse where the content that’s being designed by different users can travel across those via travel, it’s no longer locked to the value of the content is no longer locked as well within the centralised space, and that’s, that’s going to be a main difference with the older metaverse because the metaverse is a concept. It’s not necessarily blockchain related. Some will say that fortnight the metaverse, Roblox is a metaverse. The new Facebook horizons is a metaverse, but in each one of them, they are actually silos, the value the users cannot travel from one to another. So the value of the silo is essentially it’s 100% into locking the content and the users in it. We are ongoing. On the opposite. We do believe that there is more value, actually, if there is a free circulation of goods and people across the natural world. Now, I hope that my message can be heard. And we’ll have some more and more grounds like numbers and metrics and good example, to sustain what at the moment is still a vision and could take five or 10 years more to achieve. But I’m not the only one believing in it. I do believe there’s major actors, major investors that openly talk about it. And so we are hopefully we’ll see change in the upcoming years.
Jamie Burke 43:16
I think an open metaverse is a vision that I can certainly buy into. Sebastian, it’s been great having you on the show. I think people will find it really fascinating. It certainly provoked a couple of thoughts for me that I’m going to go away and noodle on. Good luck with the beta launch in December. I guess it’s going to come at you pretty quickly. But as you say you’ve been pretty good at hitting deadlines, so no pressure. Good luck with everything. Thanks coming up.
Sebastien Borget 43:44
Thank you, Jamie. It’s been a pleasure having this conversation. And thank you everyone for listening. We hope to see you in our metaverse. So join sandbox. Cheers
Jamie Burke 43:55
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